There are much more interesting beyond the popular

Interviewed by Victoria Stepanets

Continuing the main topic of this iteration – Defining Art – we have met with a Japanese artist Junko Mori who currently lives in the UK.

The peculiarity of her works is the great attention to detail, and the repetition of them; each treated with maximum professionalism. This can be seen in  one of her works, Propagation Project; Ring of Small Petals, currently in the collection of the British Museum in London. The artist shares her opinion that the process of repeating every detail, and the polishing of the technique is an integral part of professional art.

Victoria Stepanets: The first question I want to ask you – how would you describe ‘art’ in terms of feelings, emotions, and associations?

Junko: When I think about art – it is not necessarily an object, it is something that moves my heart or tickles my soul. I mean that physical reactions occur – the art can cause tears or goosebumps. That's what I'm really looking for. I love those types of works where you can see a high level of craftsmanship, skilfulness, where a long process of repetition and polishing is behind the result. 

Junko Mori with her work, Propagation Project: Forest Floor, Haiku (2023). Photo: Adrian Sasson

VS: I want to extend this question. Do you think contemporary art should be defined? Should art universities, for instance, provide specific explanations of what ‘art’ is to their students?

Junko: I'm really against definition, to be honest. Art is all about accepting and finding each other to oddness and weird beauty, about coexistence of different values, and understanding each other’s values. And that's why art is unbelievably amazing and important. Art is one of those few academic subjects – alongside Philosophy for example – where there cannot be only one answer to a question. Even scientists, for example, when they have some assumptions that need to be proven, they go through thousands of different tests – and then they find something they could not even imagine before those experiments. If they had made any statements beforehand – it would break everything. The situation with art is quite similar I believe. So, if we established a definition in the first place in the art academic guard, students or everybody would end up trying to fit the definition, I can't see the point of it at all. If we tried to define art in an academic way – it is a waste of time. I seriously believe in that. So my answer to your question is – Not at all. The only definition I have – art is something that moves my heart.

VS: On one hand, I totally agree that we will become very limited if we try to define something like art. Perhaps it's not right then. But on the other hand, when there is no definition, we face a situation where everything can be art. And there will be no argument against something to be called art, even if you obviously recognise that it is not. Absence of any definition leads to a situation where non-professional art is at the same level as professional art, erasing any difference between them. Do you see that as a problem in the contemporary art world? Or you think it’s a common situation and there is nothing to worry about?

Junko: It’s interesting… You know Marcel Duchamp has already made an argument on this – he tried to define art, about 100 years ago in Paris. He placed a readymade urinal in the gallery, and stated it is art. Duchamp was a pioneer of conceptual art, and everyone was talking about the definition of art at that time, and then ended up suggesting the idea that anything could be art. So, he did it in a gallery and everyone has just seen and followed that kind of concept to be really honest. But to me, that philosophical thinking itself is a form of art. You remember the Turner Prize winner, Martin Creed, who presented the Work No. 227 Lights going on and off where he  simply switched lights on and off and won the award in 2001? Although his kind of work did not move me, I'm sure there were some people who were moved by his work, especially those who judged the Turner Prize that year. So, I think accepting other people’s judgement and all these things itself is an artistic process.I don't think that it is a problem in this sense, but I tend to be moved by the craft of people making objects, after a few years of practice and then gain the skill, and then keep on pursuing this practice.

I can also be moved by completely different things – the beauty of nature, the process of my daughter’s swimming, even a football match can inspire me a lot, and move me. Yes, it’s not art – but it’s about the everyday moments we need to open our hearts to, to accept these moments to get in our soul, to choose to hold these moments that are happening around us.  And to find it is your skill. You can go to the top florist shop in Knightsbridge and find beautiful new blooming flowers. Of course, it's beautiful. I won't deny it, but I can find a similar level of beauty in weeds in the field around us in Wales. So basically, to train yourself to find this amazing beauty around you is the artistic process itself, I think.

When you're not an artistically trained person, it might be quite boring for you to visit the National Gallery, for example. But I've been doing this practice for over nearly 30 years, then every year the museum hits me, it's overwhelmingly fun and joyful. When I was a student, I did not appreciate the National Gallery enough, and now I'm obsessed. When I am in London, I visit the museum to see the old master Michelangelo, and every time I am impressed. The more you learn history, the more you are involved in your own professional practice. The more you learn about the context of the specific time,  the more open you become to see the whole beauty of the art. Coming back to your question of whether everything can be art – yes, to be really honest. It depends on how you explain it and how you personally find the specific work, whether it touches your soul. That’s what art is all about.

The work by Junko Mori, Propagation Project: Bird Ring (2023). Photo: Adrian Sasson

VS: Yes, definitely. Then, let me ask another question – do you think there are different levels of art? For example, if we speak about Michelangelo’s works and recently graduated art students’ works – could we say this is the art of the same level?

Junko: I collect art – and you can see, I have different artists here, including young, recently graduated art students. And I am moved by their works. I accept different tiers, different levels of art. It is similar to sports: Andy Murray is a top tennis player, but an 8 years old Kenny Hit is still a tennis player. They are of different levels, you cannot compare them, you can’t say someone is not a sportsman. If I find an artwork I am really enjoying, if my heart is pinched, that is art for me. And that’s enough.

VS: To summarise, you think we can’t compare such an artist as Michelangelo to those who are just at the beginning of their professional pathways?

Junko: Yes, It’s like with diamond, gold, or other rare metal. Because it's rare – its price automatically goes up. Michelangelo’s or Da Vinci’s works and paintings are ridiculously expensive, and there is no wonder why they are so expensive. One of my colleagues once said to me that the work we discussed was not as ‘high art’ as another. I was getting quite nervous hearing that. I believe we don’t need to say ‘high art’ and ‘low art.’  You can say – it's not my cup of tea, or it's not my taste. Fair enough, I agree. But High or Low… I don't want to be the person saying that. That’s why yes, we might have different tiers of art, works of different values and prices. But all of that is art.

VS:  My next question is: please give me three elements of art that professional art can't exist without.

Junko: My personal answer is determination, perseverance, and persistence. That's what I unfolded. These three elements are about not giving up and continuing to push forward. Only through a long process of trial and error, experiments, and practice – repeating skills and techniques – can one create truly professional art. So, these are three essential qualities.

VS: When we are speaking about conceptual art, the idea becomes much more important than the work itself. What do you think  about this?

Junko: I am convinced that both the concept and the form are equally significant. But we've gone through this period of conceptual art – for already two decades now. I remember an exhibition at Tate Modern where one artist presented a work where she described an idea – you could easily imagine that installation, but she just wrote it. It was just an idea, and she didn't even need to create that. I thought it was very clever. She was an amazing pioneer. The art has already entered that stage. We don't even need to create. It's incredible, isn’t it? We are already hitting that stage now. And that was in the 1960s!

VS: Could you tell a bit about your artistic process of art creation?

Junko: Before I started my artistic career, I had panic attacks, and I was trying to find a solution to recover myself. I had to focus on my mental ability – how I could calm myself down. I started to learn a lot about different tools and methods, and then I began to research the repetition process in depth – in particular, its positive impact on our mental health. I found out that even household chores, when you focus on it, creates a kind of a meditative process that harmonises your inner state and resets the nervous system. And then I applied this repetition as an integral part in art creation – and all my works are still composed of many repetitive elements. The repetition, craft practice, forging, blacksmithing process, particularly at that time, were helping me to overcome my panic attacks. I don’t design the outcome beforehand – it just flows. I could say that sometimes, I become very robotic – but at the same time, it’s about the achievement of the stage where you can make elements in a professional way, automatically. 

VS: Another question I want to ask you is about success. I understand it might be difficult to evaluate whether the work is successful or not, especially in the art field. But nevertheless, what does success mean to you?

Junko: For me, success is when I find myself jumping around in the studio after creating something special – I feel happy and exhilarated. Yes, that's definitely a successful moment. Sometimes I start welding and then this gorgeous piece starts appearing without any struggle – Wow, that's done, no problem! Gorgeous. But I have many poisoned elements downstairs as well, I can’t control the whole process and something goes wrong, it is beyond my control. But then, a few years later, I go back to it – and I can find them quite successful after that. So, the more I struggle, the more experience I gain, adding  another layer of understanding. Overall, I find it a success. I try, and then I have to go through extensive research to gain more experience and knowledge. It's interesting – each piece has its own unique elements of success, I suppose. But there's no single answer to this because every moment brings different types of successes.

VS: Do I understand correctly that your feeling of success is based on your own level of satisfaction rather than on other people’s judgements of your works?

Junko: Yes, it’s like this. In terms of social success for example, I have always been, and am still puzzled. When I pass the British Museum and see a huge queue of people waiting to get in, I realise how popular this museum is, and that my work is in its collection! They bought it about 9 years ago – and it took 9 years for me to realise – wow, that was a ‘success’! But I am still confused. To be honest, I often don’t see social success in the way others see it. But it’s another story. You know, I had times when I was very poor – about 20 years ago. Sometimes I ask myself how I still carried on.One thing I can tell everybody is that I absolutely loved what I did, and I love what I do now. It saved me from my mental problems – it kind of saved my life in this way. If anyone's struggling, I always say – do minor repetition. Reading, gardening, or polishing the bathroom – seriously. It's so good for you. If you start thinking, why are you depressed – that's a problem. Just go for a walk, read, or write. It's brilliant.

VS: Perhaps the last question – how do you see the art field nowadays and its future?

Junko: Avery, very exciting time we are having right now. There are so many types of arts that coexist – not just contemporary conceptual art. We have many great musicians and painters whose art is different from conceptual, and they are still quite successful. Of course, there are always problems in any field. But if we focus more on what is exciting rather than what is problematic – and it's not about “let's stay positive”. I seriously believe there are so many corners in even local communities close by. There are so many hidden, amazing, exciting moments that are happening. And then, I think, to dig out these moments is the role of artists. Fashion is the same – we can't just rely on what the media suggests us to wear. We need to dig deeper and search for our own style. And the real issue often lies in passively consuming what is readily available, including music and food, rather than actively seeking what truly excites us. So, I think we need to focus on exploring what genuinely interests us and take pride in our discoveries.   Many of us easily overlook the many remarkable things that exist beyond what’s widely popularised – let’s dig deeper, and search for something more. I can confidently say – there are amazing opportunities  ahead!

VS: Thank you very much for our conversation!

Junko: Thank you.

The work by Junko Mori, Propagation Project: Forest Floor, Haiku (2023). Photo: Adrian Sasson

The interview was held by Victoria Stepanets, was published in the ARKTalks magazine, Summer 2024.
The text was edited by Soyeon Jung and Yuna Goda